Deserve to Win
Welcome to Deserve to Win—the BIGGEST, BOLDEST, and MOST IMPORTANT podcast in TCPAWorld! Brought to you by Troutman Amin, LLP, we dive into high-stakes battles, industry-shaking developments, and mind-blowing stories shaping consumer protection law. From FCC blunders to massive court rulings, we break it all down with hard-hitting analysis, expert insights, and zero fluff. If you’re in the game, you Deserve to Win—and this is where you get the playbook.
Episodes

Friday Mar 21, 2025
Friday Mar 21, 2025
Just a couple of weeks ago we had decided to be the bigger people and move on following Mobile Ecosystem Forum's ridiculous--and likely sexist--conduct directed at Puja.
Protests had broken out and MEF scrambled to announce the addition of new (lady) board members and a new chairman seemingly in direct response to the outcry. But then the new Chairman Robert Gerstmann, Chief Evangelist & Co-Founder at Sinch, sent around an email to MEF's members disclaiming any connection and suggesting Puja was a liar.
Absolutely stunning. Terrible crisis management.
Interestingly, we had recorded this 24th episode of Deserve to Win the day before the protests and after MEF looked like it had cleaned up its act we were going to record a new episode. Indeed we were set to record the day before Robert's email was sent around. But since MEF has demonstrated a COMPLETE COMMITMENT to standing behind Dario Betti's DISGUTING behavior it is clear to me the organization is rotted beyond repair.
MEF's smiling male male board members will grace the cover of a very special Deserve to Win magazine Woman's History Month Edition-- expected to hit mailboxes this month--but before that happens we air this special edition of Deserve to Win podcast in which we discuss the background and weigh in on MEF's BLATANT sexism. Again this was all recorded BEFORE Robert doubled down on it in such stunning fashion.
The issue is so big we bring in Phonexa CEO Lilt Davtyan to help us break this down--and her discussion about the need for HUMILITY is really very important for Robert and the rest of the arrogant gang over at MEF to understand. I suspect they have a nice big pile of Humble Pie headed their direction.
Two guys who DO NOT need humble pie, however, are Tom Cunningham and Mike McMorrow of Locke Lord. These two incredibly talented litigators join the show to discuss their massive Section 230 win against the FTC on behalf of Stratics Network.
The win allows carriers and platforms that do not dictate the content of messages but merely allow users to send messages to phone numbers to avoid liability as a interactive computer systems who are protected from liability by the "law that built the internet." MASSIVE win that might re-set the clock on recent rulings and regulations purporting to hold carriers and platforms liable for the potentially illegal acts of their users.
This is the first time Deserve to Win has featured defense-side lawyers from another law firm but given how big this win was we had to bring them on. Enjoy!
#tcpa #tsr #sexism #women #womeshistory #menbehavingbadly #230 #section230 #communications #telecom #fun #deservetowin

Friday Mar 21, 2025
Friday Mar 21, 2025
So Mobile Ecosystem Forum (MEF) kicked Puja off a panel recently and nobody really knows why.
Following some protests at their event, President Dario Betti claimed Puja was unavailable to attend the conference--but that's just flat untrue.
Without question the organization has a clear history of underrepresenting women in position of leadership and on panels and webinars, so outright sexism may be the culprit.
But there is another option as well. The day before Puja was kicked off the panel the Czar had spoken regarding MEF member The Campaign Registry and its foreign ties. All domestic companies and politicians that want access to the American text message ecosystem need to register their campaigns with TCR--which gives them an opportunity to censor speech and assign "trust scores" limiting throughput for campaigns deemed less trustworthy.
This is all scary enough but when you layer in the foreign ownership it does raise some serious questions.
Was the Czar's coverage of the issue what lead to Puja's outing? Or was International Board President Dari Betti up to something else? The TCPAWorld team breaks it down.
Plus you'll hear from Acquisition COO Johnny Tarone who has some very serious concerns about TCR and its alleged behavior targeting others that spoke up against it.
All of this PLUS coverage of the CFPB's new rules and two important TCPA decisions. You cannot miss this jam-packed episode.

Friday Mar 21, 2025
Friday Mar 21, 2025
So the FCC took the marketing and outreach world by storm this month by ruling AI voice channel communications are regulated by the TCPA.
While many publications breathlessly announced that AI generative voice calling was made wholly illegal, that is not close to true. But it is true that AI voice service providers are now subject to broader and clearer regulations than ever before.
In our incredible 22nd Edition of the Deserve to Win podcast we sit down with TWO absolute TITANS of generative AI voice-- Brian Podolak of Vocodia and Brandon Bowsky of Minerva Marketing.
Brian and Brandon break down the impact of the new rule and how their companies expect to fare in light of the new ruling. You will NOT want to miss their insights as they help explain what the new and far-reaching rule does--and doesn't--mean for businesses hoping to leverage generative AI in their B2B and B2C outreach efforts.
Before we get there, however, the TCPAWorld team breaks down the FCC ruling in glorious detail and explains why they were not surprised by the ruling.
The team also breaks down a massive new California appellate court decision that is set to release the regulators to enforce broad consumer privacy statutes.
And in a spot of good news, the Baroness addresses an awesome new case casting doubt on the idea that employees of companies can be sued personally for TCPA violations after all.
Its all right here, in this TOTALLY FREE and epic 22nd episode of Deserve to Win. Enjoy!!!
#fcc #ai #aivoice #generativeai #chatgpt #regulation #government #ftc #marketing #ccpa #california #law #legal #podcast #fun #truth #beauty #telecomlaw #deservetowin

Friday Mar 21, 2025
Friday Mar 21, 2025
Most amazing episode of Deserve to Win yet!
Power Slap's ultimate hard hitter Damien Dibbell joins the Czar and Troutman Amin, LLP team to discuss what it truly takes to be come a champion!
We talk through what its like to take a massive HIT and come back and deliver when the stakes are the highest. This guy is already a tremendous CHAMPION and is going to make an incredible attorney.
Before we get to the interview we break down new developments on the FCC's one-to-one rule, the NEW public notice proceeding on the rule's impact on small business, a recent ruling holding cell phones are not residential lines and new Utah consumer privacy law and big TCPA/telecom developments.
you can't miss this!
#tcpa #law #legal #podcast #powerslap #deservetowin

Friday Mar 21, 2025
Friday Mar 21, 2025
So the FCC's big lead generator loophole TCPA ruling just passed in December, 2023 and the TCPAWorld.com team gets together for the FIRST TIME to discuss it.
We break down all the third party and first party issues associated with the ruling and also are joined by a few SPECIAL GUESTS.
Really a ton of fun in a laid back episode of Deserve to Win, but critically important also for anyone impacted by the new ruling!
#fcc #tcpa #marketing #leadgen #leadgeneration #affiliatemarketing #smallbusiness #sms #leads #affiliate #deservetowin

Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Well Deserve to Win Ep. 19 is out now, and its our biggest one yet.
Repeat litigator Andrew Perrong has made a name for himself as being on the most vicious pro pers out there. He does not hesitate to push cases and opponents to the brink--and has been called out by judges for his tough tactics.
But now Perrong is a lawyer and has promised to bring a large volume of TCPA suits. And the filings have already begun--with recent class actions joining with the Wolf!
In my interview with Perrong I confront him on his previous misdeeds and push him on whether he intends to straighten up and fly right.
I also ask him why he thinks he gets under people's skin--and you can see the delight on his face, even as he dismisses the premise. This is an interesting character.
In the interview he admits to being "friends" with Shelton--another tough litigator who has had his own share of troubles before the courts. Regardless you have got to watch this entire interview--it is really something.
Before we get there though we break down a bunch of critical new developments, including the Supreme Court possible reviewing ATDS cases, the DEATH of PACE, and that new HUGE ruling that MMS messages are not prerecorded voice calls.
You CANNOT miss this. Watch now! #tcpa #atds #robocalls #lawyer #law #new #fun #turkey #thanksgiving #legal #podcast #win #winning #fcc #atds #supremecourt #scotus #smallbusiness #leadgen #deservetowin

Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Thursday Mar 20, 2025
So this is DEFINITELY the biggest episode of Deserve to Win yet.
One of the biggest stories in TCPAWorld history was the tale of Navient's RICO suit against TCPA attorney Jeff Lohman.
The story went roughly like this. According to Navient--one of the nation's largest student loan debt collectors--Jeff would work with other lawyers to find clients who had stopped paying their debt to Navient in a bid to get their student loans reduced. He would then counsel those clients to set up TCPA lawsuits by using certain vague phrases to ask for calls to stop. He would then sue Navient when the calls didn't stop and leverage those lawsuits to obtain debt relief.
Navient viewed this as a RICO issue-- they were being strong armed into waiving debt for no real reason. And the jury seemed to agree with Navient--awarding over $1MM against Lohman in a case that seemed to really swing the pendulum against those suspected of setting up lawsuits.
But there was a problem-- despite Lohman's alleged conduct in encouraging the lawsuits, it was Navient that had actually violated the law. And while the company might have felt unfairly targeted, it still had the last clear chance to avoid harm--it could have simply followed the law and listened to its customers. So the Court eventually threw out the judgment against Lohman--albeit two years later.
In the meantime Lohman had shut down his practice and opened a ping pong bar. (Seriously.) When he got the news that he had won his case after all he reached out to the Czar and leapt to join the Deserve to Win podcast to tell his story.
And WHAT a story.
Lohman was dragged all the way to a jury trial by a company that was eventually found to have not been following the law--and yet it was Lohman that undoubtedly suffered the consequences.
Absolutely fascinating stuff. You will not want to miss this interview.
Before we get there though we break down some of the biggest stories in TCPAWorld, including:
Macy's winning a case claiming it took too long to process a revocation;
A CEO escaping individual liability to Katz on personal jurisdiction grounds;
Two guys who weren't so lucky and DO now owe over half a million dollars personally in a TCPA suit;
More on the ongoing saga over OpenAI's legal woes.
Really a great episode and I think you'll love it. Check it out now"

Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Thursday Mar 20, 2025
In this latest episode of the insanely popular Deserve to Win podcast the TCPAWorld team talks with a guy who invented AI to waste robocaller's time. Plus they break down all the other big TCPA news!
#tcpa #ai #privacy #statelaw #robocalls #fun #podcast #law #legal #learn #grown #fight #win #deservetowin

Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Well folks, the incredible TCPAWorld.com crew is back with its latest (and biggest) episode of Deserve to Win yet!
This episode we sit down with industry legend Alex Quilici, the founder of the incredible Robocall Index. Everybody uses the Robocall Index to track robocalls—indeed, it has become the source of truth for anyone interested in learning about the volume of calls month over month.
But the fascinating thing is that robocalls are DOWN by over a billion a month recently!
You will all remember that Responsible Enterprises Against Consumer Harassment (R.E.A.C.H.) set out to stop up to a billion unwanted calls a month by setting standards for the runaway lead generation industry and also SPREADING INFORMATION about the laws and regulations out there. Obviously, Troutman Amin, LLP has been leading the charge to protect good actors and help educate the wayward, but have their efforts really stopped so many calls so quickly?
Probably. 😊
You won’t want to miss Alex’s take on the phenomenon.
Additionally, we discuss the MASSIVE PROBLEM of inaccurate call labeling. The carriers are sickeningly inaccurate with their call labeling and then have the gall—through their partners—to charge businesses to white label and band their caller IDs so they don’t get mislabeled. THEY are causing the problem and then turning around and CHARGING for the solution.
Just disgusting.
And Alex doesn’t hold back on this issue at all. Really impressive take. He pushes hard on folks.
Before we get there, we also break down all the BIGGEST developments in TCPAWorld.
We take a look at big new appellate Court cases out of the Eleventh, Seventh and Ninth Circuit Cout of Appeals, and also discuss the FTC’s CRAZY new position on consent.
You can’t miss it!

Thursday Mar 20, 2025
Thursday Mar 20, 2025
In an amazing 14th Episode of Deserve to Win the TCPAWorld team sits down with the Godfather of TCPA class actions—Abbas Kazerounian—in a wide-ranging interview touching TCPA, CIPA, Ai in the practice of law and even cryo baths.
Abbas has one of the most successful plaintiff’s side practices in the nation and files a huge volume of cases with 25 lawyers backing him up. It is critical for industry to hear his insights to understand the future of consumer litigation. And he is absolutely brilliant in articulating the future of California Invasion of Privacy Act and Data Breach cases.
Before we get to the interview the full team—including the new Viceory—break down myriad TCPAWorld developments including the new FTSA amendments, the CCPA/CRPA delay in California, AI litigation, and, of course, new TCPA and CIPA decisions.
It is an amazing IN STUDIO action brought to you by the team that knows privacy litigation best- Troutman Amin, LLP.
#tcpa #cipa #fcc #ftsa #ftc #ai #privacy #dataprivacy #privacylitigation #consumerprivacy #iapp #fun #deservetowin